“Emptiness is what’s left when you’re not clinging to or identifying with anything.”

The Freedom of Emptiness

Jason Chatfield

Listen to breakthrough conversations on some of life&rsquo;s most important topics, with world-renowned teachers, scholars, and scientists.

Conversations

Joan Tollifson

Sam Harris

Full Lesson

In this conversation, Sam speaks with Joan Tollifson about the simple freedom available in each moment&mdash;and the subtle ways in which many of us attempt to label or grasp it. She and Sam discuss the question of enlightenment, the pitfalls of both conventional and non-dual mindfulness paths, and Joan&rsquo;s experience of &ldquo;being this boundless, aware presence.&rdquo;